Page 906…
Happy Wednesday everyone.
I fear this page and tomorrow’s page has a lot of dialog. My apologies in advance.
But as you can see…The Centaurs shared their culture with our Native Americans.
So a bit of explanation.
As to the Bahta Alikchi’s purpose…hang in there.
🙂
And no…it doesn’t help Alex fly.
THanks for the votes. And thanks for reading.
See you guys tomorrow.
Scott
Don’t mind the dialogue at all!
(Though I did see a typo. Third panel “Native a Americans.”)
I concur the typo. it is not a fluke! And no, i don’t mind dialogue at all. need it now and then. XD and what a way to get the mind in gear by telling us what the darn little medicine bag DOESN’T do…. XDXD
I’m thinking the medicine bag can be used in some fashion to EXCHANGE something from Dreamland to the real world. The real fun is who or what 😉
I still say it’s a future backpack with medicine stuff that nicole is going to get her hands on for some reason or another.
I’m probably entierly wrong, but hey. 😀
waaaaiiiiiittt so why are centaurs all over Greek mythology but not Native American. DB
I like how Nastajia is all “It’s beautiful!” and Alex is like “…so what’s it do?” You’ve got the differences between men and women perfectly. XD
(PS. It says “Native A American” |D)
Going on the whole “typo” thing, it could simply be his own mis-pronunciation, or maybe I’m just thinking too hard, who knows?
Because of course all Native American tribal cultures were perfect paragons of peace, love, harmony, understanding, equality, and eco-friendly practices. None of them ever, ever polluted, or stole, or warred, or cheated, or had slaves.
I didn’t see it before, but I see the typo. No biggie; every webcomic author has made a typo in either dialog or the naming of episodic titles.
Now, if the medicine bag could make Alex fly, that would be waaay too easy; if it could transport things from Dreamland to the waking world, that’d be pretty cool(or people, though Dan and Nicole would be completely dumbfounded, Nicole more so than Dan).
Dani… Or so Orion believes, based on what he knows of the correlations to the centaurs. Did you forget this is a Dreamland Centaur speaking?
Cheers!
~Prince Demitri
Er, ah, to shorten the amount of dialogue, how about leave off the “peace, harmony and understanding.” I find that really really offensive in a manner I would take far to long to explain, so I won’t. I love this comic, but that line crosses a boundary I simply don’t like. And yes, I have American Indian roots as well as European roots.
Psh.. As if native americans were that special. They weren’t the only ones to pop into dreamworlds. We had shamans back in those days hopping between worlds in a trance all the time here in Finland. And they had witch drums! And really cool hats.
Leroy if you honestly find that offensive then say why? What boundry?
Hey, i love exposition. Continue
And yeah typo…
so far i’ve been voting every day!
Considering their contact with Native Americans is probably through their kids, I wouldn’t expect an accurate cultural reflection here.
I guess this may also hint an adult-shaman-visiting connection too, but it seems to me that adults visiting Dreamland are extremely rare. And probably not of the malevolent sort…
Chris,
I don’t know about Centaurs — that’s your call, obviously — but I happen to know about North American natives. For “thousands of years”, various tribes were constantly at war with each other. That is not what you call “coexisting in peace”.
The “Indians” were not a monolithic culture, and they weren’t any more pacifist than your average European or Asian. Just because we don’t find traces of burnt cities — which the nomadic Native Americans didn’t build — make it easy to forget for the layman.
If there is a cliche that makes all historians cringe, it’s the tired old bromide of the good savage at peace and harmony with nature and his neighbors. Please. NA were humans, with all the implications of human nature. Please do not perpetuate these tired myths.
Hey all. Thanks for the heads up on the typo.
Fixed.
Who said they coexisted in peace with other native american tribes, maybe he meant they coexisted in peace with the centaurs.
Only the peaceful tribes lived in peace. Lot of the tribes, though, tried to kill each other. They were human, just like the rest of us. ^^”
Guys…
This isn’t a history lesson.
The Native Americans and the Centaurs lived in peace. They coexisted. They found a way to share cultures.
Does this make sense?
Sys I don’t know why you’re aiming that rant at Chris’ entirely innocuous comment or why you’re even ranting about a completely fictional fantasy comic.
It does, but that’s not what it reads like. If you’re trying to make a statement, by all means you’re free to do so, but I’d suggest a little retooling of the dialogue to make it read less political.
Sean…
I’m unsure what’s confusing.
“For thousands of years the centaurs….and the native americans…have long exchanged cultures and learned to coexist with one another”
That’s it in a nutshell.
Yes, it makes sense. Centaurs and indians lived in peace. Seems pretty straightforward. No idea how it could be offensive or have anything to do with indian on indian violence.
And for the record, the Centaurs and indians all voted daily in peace, harmony and understanding. 😉
I am however, angry and offended by your total lack of ninjas. Wait, no, I’m over it. Whew.
Guys, guys…. consider this– A lot of Native Americans valued dreams and “spirit guides”. Who isn’t to say that they gave more respect to centaurs than they did their own human kind? So they could had coexisted with the centaurs, just not the other native American tribes. it’s just simple as that.
besides the typo with the A Amer, there is a grammatical problem that is glaring – read the whole sentence, together:
“For thousands of years, my people…the Centaurs…
…and the tribes of your North America…
…whom you called Indians, or Native A Americans…
…we have LONG exchanged cultures and learned to coexist with one another in peace, harmony, and understanding.”
‘we’ and ‘long’ are redundant are bad grammar, as is ‘exchanged cultures’ (you cannot exchange a culture – you CAN exchange cultural traditions, but I’m afraid this isn’t too respectful to Native Americans – I know your heart is in the right place, but…Native Americans are tired of cultural appropriation and weary of the stereotype of the Peaceful Environmental Red Man) – I suggest you change the last bit to:
“…have learned much from each other’s cultures and come to a mutual understanding.”
IF you ever visit the res (pretty much any res) and wish to learn “Native American wisdom” you may be asked this question, “what do you have to share with us from your culture?” If your answer is, you don’t know, you’re 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Greek, 1/4 Polish and you know nothing about your other side, be prepared to be laughed at – please have enough sense of humor to laugh at yourself right now. I was challenged to learn about my people, our traditions, wisdom, language, and if I came back with something to share, something worthwhile, I’d also come back a better person, and one with a sense of identity. I’ve done that – and that is precisely the wisdom I gained from Native American people from the Hopi, Cherokee, Navajo and many other tribes – I’ll go back and thank them some day – for now, I’m loving Jerusalem. However, if you just want to learn enough about Native Americans to not sound ignorant, read The American Indians, by Edward Spicer – this book is a staple of American Indian Studies 101.
Have you ever heard of wars between the Native Americans and centaurs? No? Neither have I. So it must be true that they have co-existed in peace and harmony all these years!
Sounds reasonable to me.
Hey Michelle…
Thanks for the post (and the email).
I really appreciate the input.
One thing I’d like to point out.
I can’t find a single reason why ANY group of people would be offended by a representation of being
peaceful, wise, and…well…NICE.
Why is that offensive?
Don’t change anything. I find people who whine about ridiculous things offensive. Changing this page would offend me! 😉
Agree with Protected. Great page as is.
Well let’s not say people are “whining”.
I think it’s good to have discussions and learn something new.
Discussions like this can be productive.
As long as it’s not mean spirited. Which I’ve not felt that anyone’s been mean yet. So let’s keep this going.
🙂
I definitely think there is nothing offensive in this page… It doesn’t even say anything about Native American culture itself–it’s about the Centaurs and Native Americans.
Plus I agree with Scott’s comment that this is not a history lesson, it shouldn’t matter so much.
(Enjoying your comic, as usual!)
Actually, I think Michelle made some excellent *grammatical* points, if nothing else.
The whole fourth panel seemed kind of unnecessary to me (even before reading that comment from Michelle). Can’t Alex (and your readers) figure that out from context? :p
I agree that “…have learned much from each other’s cultures and [coexist in peace, harmony and understanding].” reads much cleaner.
But then, it’s not my comic. Right? 😉
Actually, I kind of prefer a bit of text wall here and there, especially if it has to do with exposition. 🙂
And in my opinion, yes, maybe Indian tribes didn’t get along with eachother that well. Who’s to say that they – especially their children, who I think would have less war in them – couldn’t get along well with one other race or tribe, Dreamland or otherwise? Just because a people have had wars doesn’t mean they couldn’t have had peaceful relations as well.
There’s also a chance the Centaurs could have got the cream of the crop. I imagine the more aggressive ones may not have been able to travel to Dreamland as easily, if at all. Even at this point in the story it seems rare for anyone other than innocent children to come to Dreamland. Emphasis on ‘innocent.’
Sarita: Actually, I was thinking ‘what’s it for?’ as well, and I’m not a guy. Although, admittedly, I think I was thinking it was cute, as well.
Just for the sake of my view on the text in the last panel not having been mentioned yet, I figured I’d post. It sounds to me, since they “learned to coexist” that the initial encounters were not necessarily flowers and rainbows, there may have been tension, awkwardness, confusion or even outright violence early on but all that changed (my money’s on initial confusion/awkwardness as those are staples of culture shock 😉 )
I love the comic over all, and i’ve stuck with it and I joined right before the only “hiatus.” 🙂
I would like to point out that at any point where Native Americans crossed over into Dreamland, it was probably during a drug induced “Spirit Walk” and I don’t know about any of you, but I’ve never met the person who is angry while high, paranoid maybe, but never angry. I also claim my Cherokee roots.
Scott, this is a great comic. I personally am not offended nor do I find your story ‘political’. However, if politics is a matter of battle between good and evil…well, who knows. Now, of course seeing as this is a story of one person who must save the world(s) I guess this must be a biblical tale! LOL, just kidding…I take this for what it is, a good story. Keep up the good work, now I’m off to vote!
Hey Scott,
Just thought I’d drop a note here. Maybe I’m chasing ghosts but maybe the reason why people are offended (personally I’m not) is because maybe the monologue seems to appropriate (not intentionally) cultural stereotypes. The fact that the Native Americans (I’m from Oz so…) were largely nomadic tribes of varying beliefs, cultural structures and social mores means that for some people, to lump them all together is to dismiss thousands of years of actual history and culture.
But then again, some people could be reading a bit too much into it. I wouldn’t worry too much. You can’t please everyone. Maybe change the last line if it really gets under your skin as some have suggested.
Enjoying the comic for the fluffy escapism that it is.
Wow… Quite the heated discussion going on here.
First off -have to say I love Nastajia’s new look. Been following for a while now, just haven’t taken the time to say. Been really enjoying the comic. Tis fantastic.
Also…I had a suggestion that you can totally take or leave depending on how the next pages are set up. (I’m obviously writing this without the whole picture here). I think you can cut out the third panel here entirely. We all know what the North American Tribes are. I found it somewhat redundant.
But seriously – it’s your story. I see there are bigger issues people seem to be having with this. I’ll…ah…just step back and enjoy the comic.
Er…fourth panel. (dur, I can count). And it looks like someone already made that suggestion.
I would say in panel 4 to remove the “we” from the start so when you read it through it sounds more flowing and less redundant 😉
I love all the talk from people who have “studied” my culture from afar.
I am Native, I have no problem with what is going on. This is not something to get so overworked about. It is a comic. You want to argue about something, argue about how our people have the highest suicide rate in the country, or how we are more likely than any ethnic group to be victims of racial violence in this country.
Please do not get onto Scott about something so very innocent, it really is silly.
It may be silly, but it’s also relevant. And I, for one, have been enjoying the various points of view and ways people understand this issue (or whether they even see it as an issue). It’s really pretty rare that you can find a discussion like this on a public forum that doesn’t quickly devolve into a flame war, so thank you to everyone who threw in their two cents.
That DOES explain things nicely! =)
@ hut: but if you removed the third panel it would be so much more fun in a wtf way.
“For thousands of years, my people…the centaurs…(…)…whom you call indians, or native americans” XD
I don’t like the idea of a traditional centaur-Native American link. It just doesn’t fit with the horse-free culture of the Americas and their surprise at encountering horses and riders. The Native American link to Dreamland makes sense, but I really think it should have been done through another path, something more connected to pre-Columbian American cosmology.
Going along with the “stereotypical Native Americans” bit…
There was a lot less war between them than there was for Europe, and they definitely were more peaceful… on average. However, there were plenty of warring tribes– but even more that were big on peace and trade. The stereotype isn’t completely unfounded, at least.
However, if you wanna be nitpicky, drawing parallels between Native Americans and horsemen? For shame! The Spanish brought the horses!
Just teasin’. xP
just seen the discussion is going on until today. All this only because a medicinebag had to be fitted into the story somehow. I doubt anyone would have imagined that little thing would rise an upset.
And centaurs are no horses, btw. Since Harry Potter we know they’re badly insulted if you relate them to any sort of animal 🙂
Seraies, in classical mythology (Greek), centaurs had two very different characterizations: most were barbarian-like, dominated by their (animal) passions, but a few, like Charon, were great scholars and sages. And we humans are often dominated by our passions also. And more than a few are insulted if you suggest we are related to the apes.
So, all in all, we’re apparently not that different than centaurs.
I KNEW they were like Native Americans! I just KNEW it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The main reason that people would be offended at this strip would be the idea that Native Americans are one culture. It’s kind of a touchy subject, sort of like comparing the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, or the Italians, Spaniards, and Portuguese, only even more complex. I wish that the author had thought it through a bit more, but he didn’t mean any harm, so I’m willing to forgive.
Redundancy is NOT bad grammar. It is a rhetorical way of creating emphasis. In this case, adding the redunant “we” emphasises “the centaurs and Native Americans TOGETHER”, which is what he wanted to emphasise.
BOYAH!
It isn’t..people worry too much…the new trend is inventing a million reasons for being offended.
For instance: the ancient Greeks are mad at you because you gave a NA flair to the race they imagined… ;p
Plus we are talking about centaurs inspired by N.Americans..you aren’t writing historical fiction here.
Sarantium from Guy Gabriel Kay’s books is based on Byzantium(Medieval Greece) but it’s NOT exactly Byzantium… Kay elaborates on it and invents new customs etc as any writer should…
In other words we’re with you.Keep up the good work 🙂
Greetings, Internet. For thousands of years my people have learned to coexist with the tribes you call “Europeans”. This is why I look like a stereotypical member of the northwestern corner of the continent. I enjoy haggis, bagpipes, and braiding my beard, and anyone who doesn’t is not European.
(It only bugs me a little in this context, but you can see why it’s tiresome for an entire continent-full of cultures to always be associated with the horse cultures in one location — and with an inaccurate stereotypical depiction of them at that.)
They did have “slaves”. It was the common “My tribe beat your tribe. Your tribe serve my tribe for a while” in EVERY culture. It was just the MOST toned down in the Americas.
Your sarcasm detector seems to be broken, Calan.