Page 1095….
Hi all!
Sorry. This page was a bit rushed. I think I may need to tweak it a bit more (dialog and some art) over the course of the day.
So if you see it change…you know why.
🙂
Now…
Some new stuff.
First off…
The winner of the Nicole/Felicity original print goes to….
Kathryn Zajdel of Titusville, FL!
Kathryn…I’ll be signing your original and mailing it out.
If you’d like it personalized…just let me know. And congrats!
I’d like to thank you ALL for the donations. I can’t tell you how much they’re helping us out.
And on that note…I’ve made a NEW desktop.
Now please don’t feel that I’m pushing for multiple donations. I just felt that after a couple weeks…I should announce a winner and move on.
Plus…I wanted to try something for the LADIES!
So I give you….Alexander!
No, Nicodemus, I am not dense. You, however, must really destroy the foliage wherever you walk….
First time commenting – Just wanted to say that I love the comic and I’ve been following it silently from waaaaay back. I really like seeing this side of Nic; it makes me feel a little sorry for him, and I love how you’re building on his character in this way!
So…which will Arthur hear? The insult to his intelligence, or the very good question and argument that Niccy (finally) asked him? He should have said something like that YEARS ago when Arthur first brought up the subject.
oh i sense something is amiss.
nic doesnt want humans in dreamland and i wonder why aurthur is trying to make a kingdom that works together and live at peace i think he really scared that if there to many humans around he wont have anyone to scare for nightmare land to exist
I get the feeling that, for dreamland to even exist, humans have to be there, hence the requirement for a human king, so there will ALWAYS be a human to keep dreamland from just dissapearing. But then again I could just be throwing around wildly inaccurate conjecture too 😛
Well, now we know why Nic is such a tyrant. No wonder he hates humans so much
What, are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the Hell do you think I am? I’m the Goddamn Nicodemus.
it sounded better in my mind 😛
Scott, the correct grammar would be “for humans’ sake” with the apostrophe. I don’t see any problem with the dialog, really.
Though it occurs to me that if Nick had brought up what he will say next comic 20 years ago, he might have been able to convince Arthur back then. So Nick is mistaken when he says he warned Arthur of the consequences. “Stop this folly” is an order, not an explanation.
Heh. Kind of looks like Arthur has a mohawk.
Yeah, from the back Arthur does look like he has a mohawk.
Nic- “Never once considering how your actions will affect Dreamland.”
Arthur- “It just transmits information. How does sharing knowledge hurt people?”
and here we have it. 😀
not sure if that will make arthur understand though. probably not, knowing what’s going on in the future. XD
and nic would never admit that he might just be scared of any possible consequences. 😉
if it was just about the bag, then you’d be right. but arthur is still trying to get the people themselves into dreamland and that could really be bad. you know how humans are… conquer, and to hell with the consequences. XD
Then Nic should have just explained how exactly it would affect Dreamland badly instead of just plain saying ‘no’ :p
sounds like nick is got ticked.
also, I remember now that Nicodemus is also the name of the wise old rat in the movie Secret of Nimh
sexy alex wallpaper is sexy
I concur. I my mind I envisioned something like this:
Nic: Are you dense? Are you really mentally incapacitated? With your tiny rotten human brain you cannot possibly comprehend the full extend of your predicament! Your ignorance will lead us all to certain doom. To DOOM I TELL YA! DOOOOoooommmmmm!!!!
Obviously Nic breaths fire upon Arthur now.
Arthur: You did…. You…. You ate BBQ spices this morning, just so you could roast me on the spot? The insult! I demand you order ketchup and some salad side dish!
With a cheecky grin, the artifact slips unnoticed in Arthur’s sleeve.
Dundundunduuuun yeah, I’d like to see that happen in the remake. Consider it!
NIcodemus has a good point.
At least Nicodemus argues rationally. However I don’t see how his isolationism can be justified rationally. On one hand Nic might be right regarding the harmony of Dreamland compared with the strife of the real world. On the other hand: Later (in Alexander’s time) he destroys everything in what he claimed to protect regarding King Arthur.
This indicates that Nic’s rational isolationism is just a plea for his hate against the humans.
Or this indicates that he first was an isolationistic protector but then became a tyrant.
Or this indicates that isoationism inevitably leads to tyranny and so destroys the harmony that it tries to protect.
Anyway, now I want to see Arthur’s point: How can he justify his scheme and prove that the opening of Dreamland will not end in a human intervention and harm it?
Nicodemus: “You wish to bring humans to Dreamland for humans’ sake! We’ll be overrun with noobs and gold farmers!”
Some questions from the above panels:
1. Nic is obviously pushing Arthur to the limits by speaking to him like that.
He acts like that having in mind that Arthur can’t harm him.
Or is it possible for Arthur to harm Nic? i.e. “Guards! Put this dragon in jail. He insults the King!”
Is Nic capable of harming Arthur?
Can he just breath fire and fry him with no consequences?
2. Why Nic insists about the danger of the human presence in Dreamland?
As far as we know human children are capable of “visiting” Dreamland and also some adult humans (the native american people). Why this is not a problem for Nic?
3. What exactly is Dreamland?
A plane of existence in a parallel dimension that “exists” only when humans dream?
As far as we know Dreamland have a life of its own regardless of the deeds of humans.
Many questions….
Yeah…I’m not going to lie. I stared a bit before donating. I don’t know if I should be ashamed or feel dirty for oggling Alex, but I’m sure some emotional side-effect is pending. 🙂
“Or this indicates that isoationism inevitably leads to tyranny and so destroys the harmony that it tries to protect.”
Hmmm…I just finished playing a computer game that illustrated that point…
I’m still having trouble fully wrapping my head around Nic’s “good guy” motives. I’m really hoping that the next few panels are less disparaging remarks about Arthur’s decision, and more an explanation of why said decision would be bad. I really want to -get- Nic’s point of view…not just know that it’s there and disagree with it flat out.
haha no lol pwnt
😉
From a distance it looks like Arthur has a mohawk with all the white hair on the sides of his head. I also can sympathize with Nic on this one as well. Adult humans would eventually screw up Dreamland just like we’re screwing up our own planet right now.
also, Nic’s teeth look kinda weird in the last panel.
Thank You for uploading all of Gary the Pirate! 😀 I don’t have my own computer yet, I’ve been borrowing my family’s comps. Could I move the files onto my own comp later on?
For Arthur’s sake, I hope he explains his reasoning, though I think Arthur will ignore it completely. Still, even with Merlin, could he get adult humans to Dreamland?
Welcome to the comment community, fellow Dreamer!
I hope you’ve been VOTING all this time …
😉
“you deliberately went ahead and did this behind my back”
unless Nic is somehow co-ruler of Dreamland (and as far as i know he’s not), this is most certainly not his place!
Arthur is going to have to lay some smackdown to regain his authority here. there are consequences to speaking to the king like this, even if he is the most trusted advisor.
That was where I got the name.
Love that movie.
🙂
Easy on the language, nobody1111. There are frequently kids here …
😉
Yup. The PDFs you download are yours to take everywhere.
Reader from way back?
What took you so long to comment?
🙂
Let me officially say “welcome”…and thank you for reading all this time.
Nicodemus has many good points. He usually uses them to eat with …
😉
this makes sense. it’s an idea i thought about yesterday, whether or not Dreamland is a parallel world or truly a place made of human dreams. if the latter is true, then Dreamland cannot exist without humans. it can be argued that they really only need children’s dreams to exist, so there is no need to bring over adults, but Nic clearly has a hatred for humans period. at least by Alex’s time.
BTW i just wanted to say the discussion in the past few days has been really fun! reminds me of a certain couch i know…;)
Yeah, “Are you dense?” doesn’t sound like something Nicodemus would say…. at least in my mind.
Now, something along the lines of “You ignorant fool!” has a nice ring to it! FWIW.
Great stuff.
I do think Arthur probably has some ideallistic “can’t we all just get along” idea, but Nic is trying to be realistic and think about the possible consequences of Arthur’s plans.
IMHO, this is going to turn into a full-on debate, maybe even a battle!
Nic does seem to be overstepping his authority here, though.
About question 1, it would be rather amusing to watch some guards just try and put Nic in the dungeon. Hey, free lunch!
Understand Nic’s POV. Humans are so egotistical that they think they deserve to be everywhere. Humans don’t deserve anything. They are no more special than any other sentient being or non-sentient being for that matter. Life DOES go on without human intervention. The universe would continue to move on if humans were not in it.
Who’s to say that humanity is not a cancer or some other sort of disease. Albeit someone with too high of an opinion of themselves would chime in and try telling me how wonderful people are, I have way too many examples of atrocities that humans commit against one another even today in the global arena, corporate arena, WWW arena, and political arena.
I do see this narcissistic view stemming from the new mental disorders like Twitter, the home of the Twidiot, and the need for constant techno-connectivity through cellphones, texting, and so on. Where one person sees networking, another can see a embilical cord complex where a person can’t break away and stand independently from other people. They HAVE to be attached to someone.
At this point, Nicodemus is making some good arguments. However, it’s not up to him to decide what Arthur does: deciding is the King’s job. And to change that, Nico will have to become a tyrant and usurper…causing more damage than Arthur’s plan would.
Still, I don’t think such considerations will stop Nico if he really decides to go for it.
Dear Nic,
Just a thought…you may get a little further with people if you don’t insult them first. Also, warning someone away from something without giving them your reasons tends to produce similiar results to insulting them, i.e., you get ignored. Now, you may think that it is difficult to ignore a dragon, but we really are capable of it. We’re kind of self absorbed. So, you know, just be calm, state your case and you may find that you have better results.
Or you can just pull out the Heinz 57 and just go for it.
Your friend,
Nicole 🙂
Bigotry borne of past experience or bigotry borne of ignorance is still bigotry, none the less. Sadly the bigotry from past experience is the hardest to reason with since the person (or in this case, the dragon) feels completely justified in their prejudice. For every brutality that humanity commits, there is a multitude of kindnesses which no one hears about. We do not always leave destruction in our wake as Nic supposes. One must realize that the only adult humans the dragon sees coming into dreamland are rulers. Few rulers are actually the ones with hands on experience of the greatest accomplishments in our world. Sure, they can endorse great monuments and produce great governing achievements, or even reward great feats, but actually curing disease, technological advancements and medical research to ease the suffering of others are rarely the fields which rulers take an active part in. Nic has seen few of those people who have a passion, drive, and yes the dream to better the lives of their fellow humans and creatures. Yet, in his arrogance, he has decided that he knows all he needs to know to keep human adults out of dreamland. That is why Nic fails to give any more reasons than he already has. He has decided that humans are just bad.
Bigotry does not always need a reason to exist… just arrogance.
Still, Nic has a point. Wether Dreamlands needs humans to exist or not, there’s still the issue of morals and such. After all, if Arthur thinks humans can be better by learning from Dreamland, who knows if the opposite cannot happen, and the Dreamlanders be corrupted by human interference? Of course it is ultimately a matter of ideology (are beings in both worlds inherently evil or good?) and that’s not something one can argue on a reasoning level, since it’s mostly about beliefs. Since Nic has had a whole lotta years to know humans (even the best among them) he has quite rooted opinions. At this pioint, although I disagree with him, I cannot say I don’t understand him.
Now he is a much deeper character too! And that is also grrrrrreat!
I am SO loving all of your comments!
Thank you all so much for joining in and discussing.
I’ve been wanting you to read this for quite some time.
Glad you’re enjoying it.
Your delight at the active discussion of your work reminds me of the time my English professor came to class (which was full of mostly uninterested folk there for the requirement) only to find us discussing the poem we had read for homework. She was just so happy to see us discussing without her around, she almost popped with joy! You seem to be experiencing similar emotions from all your comments.
Know that we’re just as excited to see what you’ve got for us each day. This is the last comic I got to every day – I save the best for last!
Oddly, I can definitely see where Nic is coming from here. If Nic is really thinking and arguing with Arthur in the best interests of Dreamland, then he’ll make for an interesting, complex, rather nifty villain. I always loved villains that weren’t simply evil for evil’s sake or too cut and dry when it came to good and bad.
I just remembered something: King Richard (the Lionheart) I of England had a nephew, Arthur, Duke of Brittany (1187-1203). This Arthur was named Richard’s heir when he went on crusade, but his uncle John got the throne in 1199 instead. Had history gone slightly differently, our Arthur could be a descendant of this Duke Arthur. Suppose Arthur is not imprisoned by John, dying there mysteriously nine months later, but remains free as Duke of Brittany.
In the Barons’ War against King John in the 1210s, Arthur could have intervened, being crowned King after John died in 1216. Add five generations or so, and we come to 1386 for King Arthur II (or III or…), named in memory of his ancestor.
Or else–move back to about 1210s for young Arthur, taking us to about 1240 for current Arthur. Then plates for armor are just starting to be introduced, so Arthur’s plate would be a little advanced, but not too far off. This is not so good for the armor, or for building Camelot, but it has the advantage that Arthur is the first king of that name.
Bonus Note: Nicodemus was mentioned as having advised Odysseus, as well as Solomon and Cleopatra. If the 1187date for his return from Troy is accurate, that means Nicodemus is at least 3200 years old. And that doesn’t count the time for him to get old enough to start advising kings, especially a king as canny and foxy as Odysseus.
I’m just amused by the fact that you both have Nastajia icons at the moment. 😉
“I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague and we are the cure.”
holy shmoly i loved that movie
I think Arthur is being a little pompous, and I shall elaborate. Because he has a kingdom in our world Arthur seems to think that a dragon – who has seen many other reigns of kings I’m guessing? – cannot know more than him or his famous wizard who needs to shave. And isn’t it good to have members of the court who aren’t ‘yes’ men (or dragons in this case). Guess I’m just sore because I like dragons, makes me sad when they are bad. 🙁
too true, too true.
omgosh! that movie rocks!
hehehe
🙂
Thank you.
I actually have a hard time seeing this from Arthur’s perspective. Nicodemus seems right about this situation. He’s still a jerk though.
I don’t know Scott the page looks pretty good to me, but you’re the artist what do I know anyway. 😀
Been a long time since I commented, but I’ve been following AVIDLY.
I think I’m starting to get where Nicodemus is coming from. If his logic is going in the direction I think it is, then I think he has a good point.
It’s what he’s doing in the present that burns my canoli though.
Yeah, I just noticed that. Like he has regular teeth instead of dragon teeth?
Not necessarily, or possibly not exactly. If you recall how variable the time has passed between Alexander’s visits to Dreamland, it’s also possible that time may pass in similar variable rates across longer expanses too. It most likely may not be too far from that amount of time, but it is also possible that the expanses of time in Dreamland could be much shorter (or much longer!) than in the waking world.
This poses yet another possible reason why such interactions between worlds would be discouraged– here we are facing an artifact that is capable of crossing between both worlds on a nightly basis, locking both universes into a synchrony that could very well damage the fabric of space-time between them. Hm… then again, those sleeping kids do that all the time… so maybe not. Hey, I wonder, would it be possible for messages to be sent before they were written by finding and exploiting a closed timelike curve through the two worlds? 😮
Actually, this totally sounds like something Nicodemus would say, but perhaps not 400 years earlier (I don’t know if that word existed at this point or not).
“I’m King Arthur, and I’m a Knight Elf Mohawk.” 😉
its the angle
“Sparkly! Gotta’ have a sparkly!” Frankly, the books were better, but the movie did a good job of summarizing the trilogy into one movie. Ms. Frisbee and the Rats of Nimh, The Secret of Nimh, and I don’t remember the name of the other book (and that’s assuming my memory is correct and it was a trilogy).
Nicodemus is also the name of the Pharisee who was a secret believer in Jesus and came to Him in John 3 to talk with Christ and understand His teachings better. He also goes with Joseph of Arithama to help bury the body of Jesus (Joseph was also a secret believer before the resurrection of Christ who was on the Council of the Sanhedrin). That’s probably where the author of Ms. Frisbee and the Rats of Nimh got the name for that character.
Speaking of characters, whenever I read Nicodemus’ chat bubbles, I am hearing his voice like he’s the voice over of Megabyte from the Reboot cartoon series. Excellent (and classic) villain role- if not somewhat cheesy at times. But, hilarious computer references, too. Megabyte and Hexadecimal are definitely great villains. lol
Anyone else remember this first ever fully animated in 3D cartoon series?
LOL
Silverwolf- awesome randomness, as always! lol
To reply to both points made here, welcome to the sin cursed human race. By deviating from God’s plan in The Garden of Eden, we deviated from our intended role to subdue the earth and all the creatures in it (which has a different nuance from the idea of dominating it, which is more what we actually do right now).
“Albeit someone with too high of an opinion of themselves would chime in and try telling me how wonderful people are.” To do this, like Rousseau, would be to completely ignore the biblical teaching regarding the depravity of man. Men like Rousseau believed that people are born with a blank slate (thank you, John Locke for that wonderful falsehood) and as such that it was society and culture that corrupted their minds and caused faulty behavior. However, even in an isolated environment, a child will still instinctively rebel against their parents. You don’t have to teach a child how to lie- they do it instinctively. And, you certainly don’t have to teach a child that it can strive against a parental authority and try to replace the parent’s authority with his/her own (ever seen a kid in K-Mart or Wal-Mart who won’t behave? Who’s really in control there- the parent or the child? My vote goes to the child).
I’m sure that Scott, if he wanted to embarrass his kids, could provide multiple examples of his children, as good of kids as they appear to be from what Scott posts, of misbehavior. 😉
On a different and less serious note- according to a more recent Venn Diagram I saw on Facebook, those who use Facebook are narcissistic stalkers, and those who use Twitter are ADHD stalkers. Myspace is someone who’s an ADHD narcissist. lol
Indeed, you are correct on this point.
The comic doesn’t actually demonstrate Arthur being particularly pompous. A pompous person who assumes they know best would have worked out a way to bring another adult human into Dreamland and hit Nic with a fait accompli. Instead, he worked slowly (he’s obviously much older than he was in the first discussions with Nic during this flashback) and produced a “proof of concept” where humans in the waking world can exchange letters and communications with Dreamland first. I’m wagering that Arthur, with Merlin advising, through that the message bag would be a useful way for Dreamland and the human world to conduct negotiations about a treaty or some other arrangement. Nicodemus is obviously going completely off his nut about this when Arthur has not actually done any harm. Are there more adult humans in Dreamland than there were? No. So Nic’s fury has no real justification except an arrogant assumption that he knows best and that humans should stay off his grass. I see Nic as being in the wrong here, not Arthur.
Anyone who believes that they are born with “original sin” is a moron. IF there is a god, I would certainly hope that he wouldn’t blame the offspring of the sinner for the sins of their parents. That is just ludicrous. That’s like putting a murderer’s children in jail because their parent killed someone. I could never worship a god that would punish someone for an act they did not themselves commit.
I usually seem to have a Nastajia icon…the same one every time actually. I’m wondering if the site remembers me, or if I just happen to get lucky every time I view… 🙂
Oh, wow. Your post made everything click, and I now understand Nicodemus perfectly: every adult human Nick has ever met (with the exception of Alex, of course) has been a human ruler of a human realm in the waking world. This means that, for thousands of years, Nick has never known an adult human who wasn’t a politician.
Thousands of years of politicians? Yeah, that would be enough to drive anyone criminally insane …
😉
Except that, on the two page spread that started this Arthur section, the date was given for Camelot as 1386, IIRC. And Scott explained why he chose that particular date. So, given the date, which we don’t want to change too much on account of Arthur’s pretty suit of plate armor, we have to work back to come up with a reasonable explanation–if we care. And the difference in time between worlds doesn’t matter if Arthur’s Camelot, in this world, is on that date.
Yeah, humans can be real buggers. Trust me, I’ve met a few.
Only Packers fans have original sin.
SHOTS FIRED! SHOTS FIRED!