Page 1094…
Ok…so the new desktop is NOT exactly ready yet.
I noticed some “artifacts” in the render that I wasn’t happy about. And it’s re-rendering on a much higher setting.
I’ll hopefully have it up here by mid-day.
Also…I uploaded the last 3 issues of Gary the Pirate to Wowio.
But they haven’t been approved yet.
And finally…
I am done with the store. But there’s some HTML issues my sister will help me with in the morning.
SOOOOOOOO….
I hope you enjoy the comic.
Cause…you know…that’s why you’re here.
Right?
🙂
Thanks for reading. Glad you’re enjoying it.
Scott
Like he knows what dreamland needs><;;
Shut up, Nicodemus. I wish they could bring St. George the Dragonslayer to Dreamland (that would be so awesome!)
It seems as though Nic dropped down to all fours again, just to get in Arthur’s face before standing up again.
Use the sword, Arthur! Save yourself a lot of trouble later!
I think both of them have a point here. It’s just a matter of the point of view. Personally, I understand Nic’s feelings and his standpoint for Dreamland. I wonder if there has ever been an incident even further in the past that made him feel that way about the whole humans-Dreamlanders diplomacy and it not being a good idea to get into. He acts like he has burned his claws on the issue before.
Nic just made a very good point there. You know, seeing this, for the first time ever, I now hope that Nic survives this whole thing. Defeated of course, but he really DOES seem to have had the best of intentions. I suddenly find myself hoping that Alex can find a way to turn Nic over to his side somehow. Nic really IS loyal to Dreamland.
Hmmmph…interesting. The ruler is from…our world. The adviser is from Dreamland. If the two work together, they can do what is best for both worlds. If they do not, then they do not…
warning,warning, danger, will Robinson, danger Robinson!
while i agree what people said that nic made a good point but Aurthur is trying to make Astoria his home too and he made the first step between 2 places to be come like Astoria but nic is going to try stop it… with Aurthur heart is in it, but not as much me think sthat nic will stop him by putting the whammy spell on him
Authur: Dragon, you cannot even rule your own mouth!
Nicodemus: Human, just watch what I can do with my mouth! (Inhales deeply….)
I can’t help but wonder now if there’s something the party is missing. Some bigger picture that the sword is going to reveal.
I’m actually kind of hoping Nic isn’t such a bad guy.
I.e. He wasn’t born evil. He was created.
You go arth…oh! Ouch! Poor Nic!
The path to hell is paved with good intentions.
As for Nick, I think he just snapped at that point. He has been in Dreamland for eons. Time imemorial. Yet some little puny mortal creature, that spends a third of his time in his land, is the King. Resentment begins there. And since all men, even the greatest like the other kings, haev passions they will ruin his world. What Nick fails to grasps is that even the dreamlanders have faults. And thus, with hubris as his guide, the dragon seals the fate of all…
Oh,and yes. Enjoying the comic is why I’m here! =) Doing good!
I enjoy the comic very much 🙂
Arthur, maybe you ought to remind him that thus far, the pouch only transmits knowledge, not people…just a thought. You wouldn’t get in so much trouble if you did.
yeah, Nic’s just “misunderstood”.
Actually though I do agree that he wasn’t born evil. I think he’s become the way he is from either being burned badly by a previous ruler or he believes that the dreamlands should be treated a certain way but all these human kings who only last as long as a blink compared to him have vastly different ideas about what to do with the dreamlands
Oh and as Tekserver hasn’t been here to leave any messages yet today…
Go vote….go on, it’ll only take a second and all the comments that come after this one will still be here. Lets get Dreamland Chronicles to No 1 and keep it there
and again I find myself thinking that nic has a point.
a scary thought, though, to be agreeing with the villain there. ^^;
that makes me wonder if before this incident nic wasn’t a villain (or was he just hiding it very well and the too naive arthur gave him the perfect excuse? hmmm…).
can’t wait to find out which of my assumptions (if any of them at all) turn out to be true. 🙂
Nicodemus: “You care not of Dreamland’s needs. Why did I ever marry you?!”
Yes, gotta agree we are getting ALOT of explanation behind Nic’s actions – to the point where I’m starting to think he’s been in the right all along (although his actions have been questionable to say the least). If that’s not what’s intended, this might have been pushed a little far…
Well, contrary to many of the people here, I don’t think I’ll understand Nic until he explains why what Arthur wants is counter to what is best for Dreamland. Personal opinion about humans is not enough. I get that he’s concerned Arthur’s doing what is best for Camelot with no thought for Dreamland, but I still don’t see the problem he claims exists.
Besides, wouldn’t -acting- like the king mean promoting peace and communication between kingdoms? Isn’t that what Arthur’s doing?
🙂 Then again, I would side with Arthur. I’m already biased in his favor given my love of the legends.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There have been many historical figures who have said what they are trying to achieve is for the greater good…turns out to be pretty bad stuff. Nic seems to be on that same path.
I think that I know what will happen:
“For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” (Isaiah 14:13-15)
Nicodemus wanted to be more than Arthur. The dragon will fall, it’s a question of time. (Unhappily, many will suffer before it’s been gone)
But the ends still don’t justify the means… 😉
i would love to find out why Nic is so against this. in Alex’s time, he clearly hates humans, but does that hold true in Arthur’s time?
Not knowing how the conception of dreamland came about, it could be argued that without humans, there would be no dreamland. someone has to dream for there to be a dreamland, right?
unless dreamland is more of a parallel universe that can only be visited when the sould leaves the body…
I can see Nic’s point – but only if I make the unjustified assumption that his prejudices against humans are well-founded. He has taken limited experience with some of the more famous rulers (and despots) in history, whom he falsely assumes are the most noble, and generalizes to all of adult humanity.
Nick has a point. Arthur wishes to use the bag to show his fellow humans Dreamland. Not once has he said anything for Dreamland’s benefit. Every single page of him has him talking about Camelot; the only brief mention of Dreamland is that it simply coexists in peace with the Nightmare Realm. I’ve a feeling that other kings delighted at the idea of ruling two kingdoms and ruled either justly or with an iron fist, but still focused on the kingdom he was in at the time.
Nicodemus is easily one of the best villians I’ve ever encountered. 😀
Thanks for covering for me, Werepixi! 😉
(Click on my name to go vote now!)
😯
Yeah, unfortunately some unpleasant comparisons can still be made: Adolf Hitler originally had, as his primary motive, a strong and unified Germany, recovered from severe economic depression, hyperinflation of the currency, and a helplessly weak government left over after the defeat of WWI. In this he succeeded well, and tried to extend his success to the rest of the world. His core motives were, by themselves, admirable enough if a bit ambitious. His means, however, were about as deplorable as it gets (unprovoked aggression, the Holocaust, etc.).
So I have no sympathy for Nick; he may have understandable motives, but that doesn’t excuse what we already know of his means for the next 600 years or so …
[Relinquishes the podium to the next guest lecturer … ]
😉
I’ve been following the comic for just over a month now and finally realised I’ve never commented to say how good it is (I always want to support webcommickers). I’m really enjoying this lengthy flashback and seeing a bit more depth to Nic’s character. The best villan is the one who starts out sympathetic. Also, the art in this comic is just amazing; I can’t believe how much effort and money you put into making it so professional. Off to click on some ads now… 🙂
Good point, but in Arthur’s defense I think he is of the opinion that Dreamland is already an ideal, perfect beyond any ability of his to improve, and so he is focusing on Camelot in an effort to improve the waking world by making it more like Dreamland. I suspect, in Arthur’s mind (though he’s probably never thought about it consciously) this is meant as a compliment to Dreamland, not a slight to it.
Arthur needed to convince Nic how Astoria would benefit from increased interactions with the waking world ie Camelot. I also see where Nic’s coming from but I’m almost sure he has his own agenda somewhere
Any believable villain will have points you can agree with. Those that don’t quickly fall into that Saturday morning cartoon villain role. Though I agree that he may not be a villain yet. I doubt he ever was truly a villain. More a case of extreme measures and “doing what was necessary” in the line of duty.
Perhaps Nic has been to our world and seen how humanity behaves. Perhaps that’s why he’s so opposed to bringing adult humans to Dreamland. Can’t say I blame him.
Agreed. Understanding a person’s point of view doesn’t mean you think it’s right…
I agree with you! Remember, everyone, how this conversation about communicating between the 2 worlds started, by talking non-stop about Camelot, Camelot’s human enemies, and how incapable and unteachable. Arthur’s intention all along for the exchange between dreamland and humans was to show his enemies what peace is like in Dreamland, he never really addressed how this would benefit Dreamland at all. I’m sure he didn’t mean to harm Dreamland or use Dreamland, he was just worried about Earth.
In Nic’s point of view, though, he may be thinking, “OK, these guys have seen Camelot, that’s supposedly peaceful and like Astoria, yet they still don’t get it. Would seeing Dreamland really help them? In addition, I’ve seen really awesome guys from Earth become corrupted. I don’t really want to see what these idiots who are opposed to peace is like. What if instead of us giving them ideas and helping them, they end up giving us ideas and ruining us? And if they’re so against Camelot, which is modeled after us, to the point of raging war… doesn’t that mean there’s a chance that they’d want to attack us too, since we’re the real thing?”
The last 2 points I made up =P Will have to wait til Scott reveal more in the next few pages to see if Nic’s thought process is similar to mine… but according to the exchange in those pages I referenced, it’s understandable to think that way, isn’t it? And the way that Arthur won’t shut up about Dreamland helping Camelot and the way that Arthur in the end chose to go behind Nic’s back to make this come true despite Nic’s obvious disdain for the idea must have really irritated Nic and really made him wonder if Arthur’s heart really is more Camelot than Dreamland. Imagine a fight with your spouse or something. When he/she chooses helping a friend over staying home with you, he/she may not have been trying to hurt you or neglect you. Helping the friend just seemed more urgent atm and he/she can stay home with you another day. But on certain days, especially if that friend asked for help several times in a row or your spouse go help them behind your back despite your disapproval, it’s easy to imagine a moment of frustration where you just blurt out “you only care about your friend! You don’t care about me!”
Anyway, I think I’ve said too much =P Later pages may reveal that I was totally off the mark ^^; but Scott, I love stories that makes me think, especially when it makes me think about the actions of the “villain”. It gives the characters more depth and realism. It also makes the story more rich when I am able to identify with even the villains, instead of they’re just some inherently evil object that I can’t wait to throw away. Keep up the good work ^__^
Nicodemus has decided that he alone knows what is best for dreamland. Despite his age, this is a rather arrogant position. And whether borne of ignorance or past experience, bigotry is fueled by arrogance. He has decided that all humans (even the best of them) will bring ruin and destruction wherever they go. Hence, even though this dragon may have a fountain of good intentions, he has polluted it with personal prejudices. A very poor foundation for anyone to try to build good works upon…
I ordinarily don’t post anything, but seeing the comments about how people “see Nic’s point” confuses me.
What point?
Nicodemus doesn’t try to convince Arthur of anything; he simply tells Arthur “don’t do it’ and when Arthur does it anyway, insults him, despite Arthur being the King and Nicodemus his supposed adviser. The dragon also makes an entirely unjustified leap in concluding that Arthur has no concern for Dreamland.
Who introduced treachery, murder, and lies to Dreamland? Not humans, but Nicodemus himself.
I am reminded of the portrait of Satan in the Book of Job. When God praises Job’s righteousness, Satan challenges God’s statement by saying that Job is only righteous because God rewards him. Satan asserts he can make Job curse God. God allows Satan to take away Job’s riches, but Job remains faithful, refusing to curse God. Then Satan gives the famous “skin for skin” argument, saying that Job remains faithful only because he hasn’t borne any personal injury. God allows Satan to afflict Job, so long as he doesn’t take Job’s life. Again, Job doesn’t curse God, though he does question God’s justice. God corrects Job on that point, but Satan has lost; Job never cursed God.
What was Satan like in the Book of Job? He challenged God before his divine assembly, asserting that he knew better than God what Job was really like. He did cruel things to Job to prove his point. In other words, he was wise, but only in the sense that an evil, cynical person is wise, and he was challenging the judgment of God, which is essentially the same as saying that he knew better than God, and, impliedly, questioning God’s fitness as ruler of the universe.
Nicodemus is like Satan. He is not the King of Dreamland, but he thinks that he has superior knowledge and judgment to the King of Dreamland, and on that basis asserts a right to do cruel and terrible things. He is wrapped up in his own self-concept, believes his wisdom is superior to all others, and so justifies his actions. He claims to act on behalf of Dreamland, but really, he’s simply acting out his belief in his own superiority to those he is supposed to serve. The fact that Nicodemus comes up with a justification for his actions makes him no different from anyone else who is evil. That he wraps his selfishness in supposed concern for others simply makes him more dangerous.
Excellent thought! I’ve not had to cover for him in quite some time (that, and I’ve been rather busy to do so). lol I think the big voting button helps, though.
Tek and Jack- you hit the nail right on the head.
Jack- For some reason, I find it rather ironic that you make that point, only because in seeing your name I instantly thought of Jack Bauer. My one problem with that show is that the ends do not justify the means, which this show tries over and over again to teach you otherwise.
I think the comparison is a bit of a stretch. Both characters here have good intentions, and both of them are in the wrong to a degree. God and Satan on the other hand, Satan simply rejected God’s sovereignty over him as a created being. Big difference.
Welcome to the show, Meredith! Make sure and also show your support by clicking on the voting link for Top Web Comics. Scott’s been putting some interesting artwork (some behind the scenes or cool wallpapers) up that you can get a hold of only when you vote. If you’re really up for a dare, make a donation and receive special artwork that’s only available when you donate to the Sava Art Institute (okay, so I totally made that up, but I figure he’s gotta’ be teaching his kids how to draw, right? lol)!
And, of course, feel free to participate in the discussions! I’m quite amazed at the in-depth discussions I’ve been able to have with people over the contents of this comic. Clearly, Scott’s writing good stuff for such discussions to take place.
… and overdoing it at some point and keep overdoing it later… XD
it’s so easy to become corrupted. 😉
A bit of a stretch still, but a closer analogy than what was drawn by others who posted before you. However, I still bring some contention to this argument.
You’re wrong in saying that other kings did not introduce Dreamland to murder, treachery, and lies. David and Solomon were both kings of Dreamland. Don’t forget- David killed a man while trying to cover up an affair he had with Solomon’s mother (though, the first child died at birth; Solomon came later after David’s wife died later, as I recall). Solomon’s diplomatic policies, though they brought peace to Israel, created a rather bad situation of beliefs, morals, and rulership issues with his son when Solomon died (hence, the nation of Israel splitting up so that 10 tribes made up the northern Israel kingdom, and 2 tribes made up the southern Judah kingdom).
I don’t remember the other kings from history- other than Arthur- that were mentioned while in the underwater kingdom earlier on in this comic, but just those two kings alone brought a multitude of sins with them into Dreamland. Though by God’s grace, David is given the title of being “a man after God’s own heart”, this title is given to David despite the several dark blights in his life that created a multitude of issues later (i.e.- David’s affair creating a situation later where he had to put to death his own son-Absolom- who tried to organize a coup and assassinate David; there are others that could be cited, but this glaring example stands out most to me).
As Scott is weaving real history in with this fantasy world, it makes sense to me that even these previous human kings- assuming that Nicodemus was present then, too- would have left a bad taste in Nicodemus’ mouth regarding the goodness of humanity (and I don’t mean that in terms of edibility, either lol).
As their advisor in Dreamland, he would know of their deeds in our world, and would know the consequences that followed these actions. Nicodemus, though arrogant, is trying I think to make sure that Dreamland does not become a world of chaos. Unfortunately, I think I have to appeal to George Lucas and say, “The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.” Nicodemus’ mission will be a failed one at best (as we can see from the previous pages of the comic).
That post was supposed to be a reply to the previous poster- Marcus. Sorry about that. Thought I hit the reply button, but I guess I didn’t.
And I’m biased in favor of Nic because of my love of flying scaly things.
I think he’s arguing about pursuing pipe dreams over Kingdom affairs. Or perhaps he’s only mad that a non-native is running things and trying to bring more non-natives in who won’t care as much about dreamland as its inhabitants do and will muddle things up. Communication often introduces that bothersome problem of cultural melting pots.
Well said!
I figured it was a reply to Marcus.
You make some good points, as well.
Nic’s point and the one people are seeing is that, from Nic’s view, Arthur is not considering the ramifications of what this could do to Dreamland. Arthur’s world, and Kingdom is Camelot, Dreamland is just a Dream world. And Ideal and very real one perhaps, but still not wholly real to Arthur.
This is one place where Tolkein showed his Catholic heritage. In his works, bad intentions often frustrate themselves, as when Sauron rushes his troops North to the Gate of Mordor to stomp on the Lords of the West–and thereby rushes Frodo and the ring near enough to Mount Doom so that the ring can be destroyed. Or Gollum, who attacks Frodo to take the ring back with violence, and achieves his own murder and the ring’s destruction. The ends do not justify the means.
ooh, you gonna let him talk to you like that, Arthur?
lol! your comment made me giggle a lot XD
ouch! Arthur, are you going to take that back talk?
Looks like troubles…
If Nic had bothered mentioning why this was a bad idea Back in the Day, maybe Arthur would know more about these supposed needs of Dreamland! Assuming Nic has any real basis for his reaction. Interesting.
I dunno. Nic still hasn’t really explained why this is all so ZOMGBAD for Dreamland. If he had actually _advised_ back when they had the original conversation, instead of just being dismissive, it might’ve made a difference.
Yeah, on 24 there’s never enough time for niceties like due process. XD
While Nic is correct that Arthur’s pretty focused on Dreamland, he’s also accusing Arthur of ignoring a danger that Nic never bothered really explaining.
Nic, you’re the advisor, do some advising. 😉 There’s more to it than just saying “bah humbug, myths… ignore this craziness.”
Sir, you have just broken my mind.
That’s gonna leave a mark! 😐
This is where the plot thickens… now, with 30% more syrup!
Yes. If they had worked together, both of them TALKING to the other and neither ignoring the other, then they would have worked together for the good of BOTH realms. As is, they are both looking for the betterment of THEIR realm. The partnership is not working…
Well, I agree with you.
Nicodemus seems to want to take Arthur away of his path, Nicodemus wants to be higher than Arthur and he will fall at the end, and these two things are the only equal between two stories.
In Dreamland plot, Nicodemus and Arthur are both wrong and both of them have good intentions, as you said. It’s very different from Bible’s verses.
I was stretching a bit… Thanks for replying and helping.
lol
this is very true makes you wonder doesn’t it?
You dear sir always make me giggle I’m sure your a fun person to talk to^o^
“I hope you enjoy the comic.
Cause…you know…that’s why you’re here.
Right?”
You’d be surprised at how much energy some people are willing to put into things they at least claim to hate.
Not me, though. Why read something I don’t like when I could read an awesome comic like yours?
Bow chicka.